Hey there,

 Wow, you distance learning guru's are something else. :) The information you provide here is astounding!

What are your feelings on Baker College? I know they're big brick-and-mortar in Michigan, but how does their online program match up? I am looking specifically at the BA in Psychology. 

I like them because the cost is very affordable, they're RA, they let me CLEP at any time during the program, and they offer 2 sessions within their quarters... so 8 sessions total a year.  Doing the math for me, I'd finish my BA at the end of 2.5 years.

Any red flags with this school?

Thanks.

Michael

No red flags.  I often recommend their online doctorate in business administration, for example.  Baker College is a great choice!

-=Steve=-

It is interesting you say that about the quarter hours and the increase in price. That is something I noticed as well.  Is that the only reason you can think of that schools work on a quarter rather than semester hour? Does anyone have other feedback on why schools choose which timeline?

 Thanks for the input and the all-clear on Baker!

I personally think it is to make a program seem cheaper than it is.  But then I’m notoriously cynical.

Quarter hours aren't a conspiracy.  It's just an inches/centimeters kind of thing.  They're a remnant of when schools either had three quarters per year or two semesters (with an optional summer term in each case) and all schools fell under one category or the other.  Now terms are so varying (five-week, eight-week, ten-week, you name it) that having two different measurements of credit is kind of confusing, but it wasn't by design.

-=Steve=-

I am just finishing up my BS in Computer Science. I am a Senior and should be finished by this fall. Prior to doing online courses, I had spent five semesters at a traditional college. I was just floating around from one major to the other, so I decided to drop out and get a job. Once I had figured out what I wanted to do, I had responsibilities and couldn't just drop everything. So I decided to do online classes. This was back in 2004/2005 and I was very aware of the criticism of online schools. I spent a good six months investigating all my options. I wanted to make sure the schools were properly regionally accreditated, that they are non-profit and that their cirriculum matched up against traditional schools. I finally settled on Baker because it was one of the few out at the time offering Computer Science, and their cirriculumn matched the local state university, they were regionally accreditated and they were non-profit.

Comparing Baker against my five semesters at the state university, I would say that the experiences are equal. You get good instructors, bad instructors, good courses and bad courses. The courses aren't easy, but they aren't grueling. They are middle of the road, where they should be. I did have some issues from time to time with course material, but I had those same issues in a traditional classroom. In fact, once at the state university, they gave us an instructor who could barely speak english and it was his first time teaching. It was a difficult course, but I got through it with an A. So Baker isn't perfect, but neither are traditional universities.

I am not one to recommend a college, because that negates any neutrality I might have. Also, I wouldn't say there is any one thing about Baker that is so exceptional that I must recommend them. However, given my experience, I see no difference in quality of education between Baker and traditional universities. I never once had a recruiter call me or was I ever given a sales pitch. As any legitimate college should, they don't really care if you enroll or not.

 I will say that I have started looking into Masters' programs and so far, I haven't had one incident where a degree from Baker has been an issue. Just remember, that you get what you put in. If you skate by on C's, don't blame your school when the job offers don't roll in.

I have to warn you against Baker College. A recent indicent paints them in a poor light. I have been working on my BS in Computer Science for the last year and a half. I just found out that they have dropped Calculus I and II from the cirriculumn. Since my fiancial aid only covers classes required for my degree, there is no feasible way for me to take these courses. Without those courses, my Computer Science degree is worthless. It is like a Business Administration degree that doesn't cover accounting or management. I will never be able to obtain a position that specifically requires a Computer Science degree, meaning that they expect you to have advanced math on your transcript. Neither will I ever be able to get into any kind of legitimate Master's program.

When I brought this to the attention of the Baker College, their response was simply that there is nothing they can do and I should just go pick up Calc I and II at the local communicty college. I found that an incredibly outrageous response. I understand that cirriculumn changes are normal, but usually after doing a survey and getting student input. Even then, they almost always grandfather current students in. It would not have been so bad if they had told me six months ahead of time that the courses were going away and if I wanted them, I should take them now. As I have said in previous posts, Baker College is notorious for doing things and not warning their students.

I was clearly defrauded into paying them money for what they represented as a legitimate degree, only to have that pulled out from under me at the last minute. The Calc I and II were the main reasons I chose Baker over other colleges. Baker was the rare online school that offered those courses. Had they told me from the beginning that they were planning on stripping those out, I would have never attended Baker.

 Just be warned, if they did it to me, they will most likely do it to. You could very well find yourself with a watered down degree that is worthless.

I have heard of student's being gradfathered in, but there's no certainty of it.  As for surveying the students before administering a change in required courses?  I've never once heard of that.

Technically until a degree is confered you have to jump through whatever hoops they throw your way, that doesn't mean you have to like it though and it doesn't mean you necassarily have to stay.

What was their justification for dropping those courses?

Jerim,

I can't help but notice that you were perfectly happy with Baker until this issue arose.  It raises a few questions:

• Were these courses required until now, or are they simply discontinuing what had been electives?
  
• You say that you brought this to their attention, and that's a good start, but who did you speak with?  If the answers are unsatisfactory, keep going up the ladder or go elsewhere in the hierarchy.  I'd have started with the department chair.
  
• You mention financial aid.  Even if they won't offer the calculus courses you want, if they mean it that you should take them elsewhere then one possible solution is that you do just that but still use your Baker financial aid to cover them.  The schools will need to enter into a "consortium" agreement.  I did this when I was doing my Bachelor's degree and wanted to take a course at one school to transfer to my home institution.  Talk to your financial aid advisor.

I'm not saying this is a good situation.  But that just means it's time to get analytical, not angry.

-=Steve=-

The courses were required until now. If you look back at my posts, you will see that I have had several issues before now. None as serious as this.

Even if I pick up the courses elsewhere, no respectable college is going to look at my cirriculumn at Baker and say that it was a legitimate Computer Science cirriculumn. They will most definitely find it odd that high levels of math were not required. This is going to throw into doubt the validity of all other course.

The issue at hand is the quality of the program. It is the quivalent of getting a BS in Mathematics and only having to take Trigonometry. No respectable school is going to consider that a valid program, even if you did go elsewhere to take additional mathematics courses.

Jerim:

Seriously, you have never heard of a college hearing from the student body on cirriculumn changes? Happens at major universities all the time. I am not saying that the students decide, but they get a voice. This is what student government is all about.

Seriously I am.  If you can link to one instance I'll be satisfied that it does happen however in online learning I've never seen this happen.  In fact in state schools I've never seen this happen either.  Usually curriculum changes come about by using academic needs, etc. as the cause.  Now I don't work at a university or college and never have, but I do have an uncle who is a professor at a major state school and usually when they decide to make changes to a program they don't poll the students, they instead have a board or committee made up of representatives from the school or department that developed or controls that program.  College generally isn't a democracy. 

Jerim:

Even if I pick up the courses elsewhere, no respectable college is going to look at my cirriculumn at Baker and say that it was a legitimate Computer Science cirriculumn. They will most definitely find it odd that high levels of math were not required. This is going to throw into doubt the validity of all other course.

I think you have a point, but not the extent that you're claiming here.  No, I don't think it's good that they've removed Calculus from the curriculum.  In fact, I think they ought to step up and address your concerns.  But even if that doesn't happen I don't see you getting laughed out of town as you seem to think.  If you apply to Master's programs specifically in Computer Science they might expect you to take them at that point as a prerequisite.

That said, though, I'd keep at the school and demand a better solution. 

-=Steve=-

tcord1964:

I believe Baker College operates on the quarter-hour system, rather than credit hours.  That has always been an issue for me because it tends to make the programs rather expensive.  I have never heard anything but positive remarks about their courses and programs, however.