I found Steve's recent blog post about online law schools very interesting so I thought I would start a thread about it.  I've always been interested in doing a law degree, but I know that a JD from Concord is essentially useless outside of California.  But if I did a law degree online from the University of London, would I be eligible to sit for the Bar exam in New York?  Does anyone know the bar passage rates for these British schools?  And finally, assuming I went to one of these schools and passed the Bar, are U.S. law firms going to take my non-ABA accredited degree seriously, or are they going to view it as a joke?

I've done some research into the possibility of getting a British LLM, but, based on what I've read, even if I pass the Bar and am a full fledged attorney, it is highly likely that many firms won't want to hire me.  Just curious Steve, has your wife taken into account that a non ABA law degree might put her at a competitive disadvantage?  Has she considered going to night school or doing a JD part time from an ABA accredited school?

 

 

donald, about half of the lawyers I know are self employed, kind of like a doctor's office.  They don't necessarily work for law firms so that's something to consider.  Also a good number of those with law degrees do not actually practice law, but instead serve as a legal advisor or counsel for corporations that they are employed at.  For example you see these car commercials with all these disclaimers?  They do that type of thing.  But if you turn around and sue that company they are likely to retain a trial lawyer for the actual arguing of a case where the corporate attorneys act as the defendant or plaintiff on the company's behalf.  It's that "army of lawyers" mentality.  There are exceptions however where trial lawyers are held on staff at corporations, though from what I understand it is the connections and up to date skills of trial lawyers that are crucial and at times those sitting around for months to years for legal actions get rusty. 

Then you have specialized law, accounting, criminal, etc.  Then within market segments there are niche lawyers, real estate, medical malpractice, minerals (oil), etc. 

I have a whole segment of cousins who are 4th and 5th generation lawyers who do all kinds of stuff. 

Back to one of your questions though, a UK law school will not prepare one to sit for a U.S. state administered baby bar, you would have to learn the material yourself.  It may "qualify" you technically but that does not mean that it will prepare you or is meant to prepare you.  Being that so few people probably actually go that route, I'd sincerely doubt the school or the state would have any meaningful statistics on it.

 

After thinking about it, I don't think a British LLB is a good idea.  The curriculum does not seem to prepare students well for the Bar.  At the University of London, some of the courses include EU Law and Islamic Law, which are obvivously useless in the U.S.  And then there is the even bigger problem: How many employers are going to take the degree seriously?  If a firm specializes in international law and international matters, then they might be impressed by the U of L degree, but I don't think most firms will be.

The only way I can see it being worthwhile to practice law is if you do so overseas for a number of years, then return to the states, complete an LLM or somthing of the like from an ABA school, take and pass the bar here and continue on working in a similar field you did overseas.  At least then your degree makes sense and you have experience to back it up.  You may not be able to practice law in said country without being a citizen however, but I'm sure there are work exceptions.

donald11:

I found Steve's recent blog post about online law schools very interesting so I thought I would start a thread about it.  I've always been interested in doing a law degree, but I know that a JD from Concord is essentially useless outside of California.  But if I did a law degree online from the University of London, would I be eligible to sit for the Bar exam in New York?

Yes, actually, although that's unique to New York, as far as I can tell. 

Does anyone know the bar passage rates for these British schools?

Probably not, since that's not their purpose. 

And finally, assuming I went to one of these schools and passed the Bar, are U.S. law firms going to take my non-ABA accredited degree seriously, or are they going to view it as a joke?

If your goal is to work for some big firm somewhere, you might try asking them.  Many large firms do work internationally, so it may be a benefit.  If you'd be more interested in practicing on your won, or with a small group, then all you'd need would be a license to practice in your state.

Either way, I'd agree that if one's goal is primarily to practice here in the States, then an ABA-accredited JD from an American school is the way to go.  Bear in mind, though, that my wife's situation is a little different from that.

-=Steve=-

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B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

By the way, the blog post that started this thread is here:

http://community.elearners.com/blogs/atsu/archive/2009/06/06/my-wife-the-law-school-student-we-hope.aspx

-=Steve=-

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B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

The website for the California School of Law, at http://community.elearners.com/forums/AddPost.aspx?PostID=21233, states as follows:

With a little investigation students will find that some other states:

• will allow our graduates to sit for the bar exam after graduation

   

• will allow our graduates to sit for the bar exam after passing the california bar

  exam
  

• will allow our graduates to sit for the bar exam only after first gaining experience as an attorney

   

• will NOT allow our graduates to sit for the bar exam

You can contact your state bar to find out if a California Distance Learning law school satisfies the educational requirements.

You can find a directory of state bars at  ABANet

If you want to practice law in a state that currently will not allow our graduates to sit for the bar exam, there are some options.

Federal Agencies and Courts

If you pass the California State Bar and find employment with the Federal Government or Courts, you can work in any state. Graduates can work for agencies like; The Justice Department, Social Security, IRS, EEOC or federal courts.

State Agencies

If you pass the California State Bar, in some states an exception for state government employees has been made for agencies such as the city attorney or public defenders.

In House Counsel

If you pass the California State Bar and find employment as In House Counsel with a corporation, some states will allow you to work as an attorney for the company.

Unfortunately, even if you get an online law degree and pass the California bar exam, nobody will hire you.  I would only get a non ABA degree if you want to open your own practice.

donald11:

Unfortunately, even if you get an online law degree and pass the California bar exam, nobody will hire you.  I would only get a non ABA degree if you want to open your own practice.

That's not necassarily true even though a non ABA JD might be more difficult.  For example I know of at least one local govt. that doesn't pay assistant DAs enough to barely get by on, I doubt they're able to be as picky. 

Even if there is a patchwork of occasional exceptions where a non-ABA JD is recognized outside California, overall its utility outside of that state is extremely limited. In particular, I am not as sure as you seem to be that there are any other states where one can practice law without severe restriction immediately after graduation, even for those who first pass the bar in California.

-=Steve=-

 

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B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

In this economy, employers can be as picky as they want to be.  There was recently an article in the NY Times about graduates from top tier law schools being unable to find jobs.

Yep, and I read about a pair of PhDs in a food line, just goes to show it's the individual and not the individual's education that is employable, even still, don't forget that even in this economy there are still jobs that the news reports "Americans won't do" and people who are highly skilled, highly educated and who get things done are just as in demand now as they ever were.  For example my company would kill for a project manager familiar with the unified process and java development, but guess what?  There just isn't an army of people with that skill set standing in soup lines waiting for an offer to come along.

"For example my company would kill for a project manager familiar with the unified process and java development, but guess what?  There just isn't an army of people with that skill set standing in soup lines waiting for an offer to come along."

That's why they need to train people who don't have that knowledge. One of the main reasons many jobs are going unfilled is because the job ad states that you need to have a certain knowledge and only 3 people in the entire city have it.  But compaies are lazy and don't want to train anyone.  They want them to have the knowledge on day 1.  So the result is the position goes unfilled. 

It has nothing to do withbeing "lazy" but instead making such an investment in people (mandated of course) would also raise their marketability yet may not necassarily produce the kind of PM you need, certainly not one with track record for success.  Would you place multi-million dollar software development contracts into the hands of a inexperienced PM?  Especially if dealing with billion dollar repeat customers?