tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

Neither the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools www.sacs.org nor American Intercontinental University www.aiuniv.edu says anything on their respective websites as to why AIU was on probation.

May be AIU is not on probation now, but they were. Check out this link below and I beleif the information is legit: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/203/RipOff0203329.htm  

SteveFoerster:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation. People hate UoP's marketing tactics and wonder about distance learning, but UoP's accreditation is solid. I had no problem with their BSIT degree and transfer credits to public university's business school which had RA and AACSB accreditation. I could not say that for AIU with same amount of certainty.

The funny thing about wondering about distance learning because of Phoenix's marketing techniques is that they have more students on all those campuses of theirs than they do online!  Why doesn't anyone question the legitimacy of campus-based programs because of Phoenix's marketing?  It would be just as justifiable.

-=Steve=-

 

Good point Steve.  But I think most people who criticize UofP are also speaking of their campus programs as well.  It's unfortunate that they take so much heat and thought their marketing must be working on some level, they could really use an image overhaul.  However I read just recently that the Apollo group (the parent company of UofP) just reported higher than expected earnings in a soft economy.  Investors are likely to be happy with the progress of the school so I do not anticipate changes.

As for those persons who would argue that a degree cannot be academically rigorous without sitting for proctored exams?  I only have one thing to say about that.....PFFFFFFT!!!

 

 

I tend to disagree with Cajun on his proctored exams comment. To many university professors, exams are the only measuring stick in our traditional education system to test student's aptitude in academic. It is much like professional certifications, you have to pass the exams before you can be certified with MCSE, CCNP and CCIE. To most brick and mortar schools, the proctored exams are not only necessary and it is imperative for them to judge a student for what they have learned. Let me use an analogy, if Michael Jordan does every thing the same in the game of basketball, but he could not put the ball in the basket, how good, and how much MJ is worth to the game? perhaps not much. The scoring part is important to justify his game, and so do the proctored exams in justify a graduate student's college degree.

kcdpas:

I tend to disagree with Cajun on his proctored exams comment. To many university professors, exams are the only measuring stick in our traditional education system to test student's aptitude in academic. It is much like professional certifications, you have to pass the exams before you can be certified with MCSE, CCNP and CCIE. To most brick and mortar schools, the proctored exams are not only necessary and it is imperative for them to judge a student for what they have learned. Let me use an analogy, if Michael Jordan does every thing the same in the game of basketball, but he could not put the ball in the basket, how good, and how much MJ is worth to the game? perhaps not much. The scoring part is important to justify his game, and so do the proctored exams in justify a graduate student's college degree.

 

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Reason being is that I have experienced both types of programs and by large and far those based upon research have been much more academically rigorous than the those based upon testing.  

For example at Ashworth University (then Ashworth College) I took multiple proctored exams none of which were even remotely easy and it was tough.  I also have done so at Tarrant County College and again with the Comptia A+ and Network+ certifications along with my Microsoft certs.  I've become pretty adept at taking tests due to these experiences. 

Once enrolling at Southwestern College however there was an entire paradigm shift in my thinking on education primarily due to Southwestern College's academic approach to learning by research.  Southwestern also utilizes what some would call an "honors" approach being that in order to graduate one would be forced to complete what amounts to an undergraduate thesis based 100% upon research.  Although I did take some quizzes and even an exam, none were proctored though all were open book and timed.  Southwestern was more than a bit more rigorous by my standards.

Lastly at Ashford I have yet to take a single proctored exam.  Everything is research based and everything to this point has been more than a little difficult.  In fact the "toughness" of some of the courses had almost convinced me that I had made a mistake and I was sorely tempted to simply drop out.  It has been one of the more difficult things if not the most difficult thing I have ever done.  Though I have taken some quizzes and even a test or 2, none have been proctored and all of the courses were heavily weighted on your final research project for each course.  Between 25 to 35% of your final grade would be based singly upon your final research document. 


An ability to conduct research and prove to be to communicate clearly in writing of your thesis is of much greater value academically and in the real world than simple testing could ever hope to be.  Though testing has its place it is a far cry from being the standard on being "the only measuring stick" at the at the university level.

To use your basketball analogy, testing is a lot like a free throw but conducting research and writing is the rest of the game.
 

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

I wish I could remember where I read this, but after all the crap people said about AIU because its accreditation had been on probation, all the big flap had to do with one of its foreign campuses, in Dubai, I think.

---

Theodore L. Heiks, BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984; MBA, Entrepfreneurship, City University Washington, 1992; MBA, Marketing, City University Washington, 1993

tedmeister:

I wish I could remember where I read this, but after all the crap people said about AIU because its accreditation had been on probation, all the big flap had to do with one of its foreign campuses, in Dubai, I think.

I'm not sure about that.  At the time, their Dubai franchise denied any such thing: “Whatever is taking place in the United States with the AIU has nothing to do with Dubai,” said Elias Bousaab, executive vice-president of AUD.

http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2005/12/american-university-in-dubai-to-remain.html

-=Steve=-

---

B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

kcdpas:

I tend to disagree with Cajun on his proctored exams comment. To many university professors, exams are the only measuring stick in our traditional education system to test student's aptitude in academic. It is much like professional certifications, you have to pass the exams before you can be certified with MCSE, CCNP and CCIE. To most brick and mortar schools, the proctored exams are not only necessary and it is imperative for them to judge a student for what they have learned. Let me use an analogy, if Michael Jordan does every thing the same in the game of basketball, but he could not put the ball in the basket, how good, and how much MJ is worth to the game? perhaps not much. The scoring part is important to justify his game, and so do the proctored exams in justify a graduate student's college degree.

I just finished a Master's by distance where almost all of the coursework was graded on written assignments submitted throughout the course.  I don't think that adding proctored exams to each course would have been helpful or have been a better indicator of my absorption of the material.

That said, I have no problem with proctored exams as one way of grading.  For example, I have no problem with credit-by-examination programs like CLEP, for example.

-=Steve=-

---

B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

SteveFoerster:

kcdpas:

I tend to disagree with Cajun on his proctored exams comment. To many university professors, exams are the only measuring stick in our traditional education system to test student's aptitude in academic. It is much like professional certifications, you have to pass the exams before you can be certified with MCSE, CCNP and CCIE. To most brick and mortar schools, the proctored exams are not only necessary and it is imperative for them to judge a student for what they have learned. Let me use an analogy, if Michael Jordan does every thing the same in the game of basketball, but he could not put the ball in the basket, how good, and how much MJ is worth to the game? perhaps not much. The scoring part is important to justify his game, and so do the proctored exams in justify a graduate student's college degree.

I just finished a Master's by distance where almost all of the coursework was graded on written assignments submitted throughout the course.  I don't think that adding proctored exams to each course would have been helpful or have been a better indicator of my absorption of the material.

That said, I have no problem with proctored exams as one way of grading.  For example, I have no problem with credit-by-examination programs like CLEP, for example.

-=Steve=-

Agreed, I didn't mean the proctored exam could be used solely to judge a person's knowledge. But it is a tool could provide some predictive value when evaluate a perspective student success rate. In our traditional education systems, exam has been the important way to accomplish that. Exam does not make a person successful, but it would help to measure the probability on future sucessful rate.

The point here is, to convience a traditional educators to change their way of thinking takes time. They will always feel the brick and mortar way of teaching is superior than distance learning, the same way they feel about RA vs. DETC not to mention the AACSB accreditation. Are they right? No one has the crystal ball on that, I guess only time will tell. I think it is safe to say that if all employers treat DETC degrees as RA degrees as equal. I would think things will start changing faster. Ends justify means. Until then, it is up in the air.

kcdpas:

The point here is, to convience a traditional educators to change their way of thinking takes time. They will always feel the brick and mortar way of teaching is superior than distance learning, the same way they feel about RA vs. DETC not to mention the AACSB accreditation. Are they right? No one has the crystal ball on that, I guess only time will tell. I think it is safe to say that if all employers treat DETC degrees as RA degrees as equal. I would think things will start changing faster. Ends justify means. Until then, it is up in the air.

Well, as far as comparing the effectiveness of distance learning relative to on campus learning, we don't have to wait, as there's already research to suggest that there's no significant difference.  As far as regional accreditation relative to national accreditation, I suppose the trend is toward greater acceptance of the latter, and it's sufficiently well recognized that for many people it's sufficient, but I expect that for a long time to come whether it's good enough will depend on the intended use of the particular credential earned.

-=Steve=-

---

B.S., Info Sys, Charter Oak State College
M.A., Educational Tech Leadership, George Washington University
Doctor of Health Education, A.T. Still University, in progress

kcdpas:

SteveFoerster:

kcdpas:

The point here is, to convince a traditional educators to change their way of thinking takes time. They will always feel the brick and mortar way of teaching is superior than distance learning, the same way they feel about RA vs. DETC not to mention the AACSB accreditation. Are they right? No one has the crystal ball on that, I guess only time will tell. I think it is safe to say that if all employers treat DETC degrees as RA degrees as equal. I would think things will start changing faster. Ends justify means. Until then, it is up in the air.

Well, as far as comparing the effectiveness of distance learning relative to on campus learning, we don't have to wait, as there's already research to suggest that there's no significant difference.  As far as regional accreditation relative to national accreditation, I suppose the trend is toward greater acceptance of the latter, and it's sufficiently well recognized that for many people it's sufficient, but I expect that for a long time to come whether it's good enough will depend on the intended use of the particular credential earned.

-=Steve=-

That's a step to the right direction, and I do belief there should not be significant differences between online and on campus educations. The student are the MOST determine factor and responsible for what he/she could learn. I many regards, online is harder due to no immediate feedbacks on questions and subject matters. A whole lot more writings will be another important factor.

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

Neither the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools www.sacs.org nor American Intercontinental University www.aiuniv.edu says anything on their respective websites as to why AIU was on probation.

May be AIU is not on probation now, but they were. Check out this link below and I beleif the information is legit: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/203/RipOff0203329.htm  

Rip-Off Report is not exactly what you would call an unbiased, objective source.

---

Theodore L. Heiks, BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984; MBA, Entrepfreneurship, City University Washington, 1992; MBA, Marketing, City University Washington, 1993

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

Neither the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools www.sacs.org nor American Intercontinental University www.aiuniv.edu says anything on their respective websites as to why AIU was on probation.

May be AIU is not on probation now, but they were. Check out this link below and I beleif the information is legit: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/203/RipOff0203329.htm  

Rip-Off Report is not exactly what you would call an unbiased, objective source.

It only serves like weather forcast, just be aware. If every one says it smells bad, it probably does smell bad:).

Cajun:

kcdpas:

I tend to disagree with Cajun on his proctored exams comment. To many university professors, exams are the only measuring stick in our traditional education system to test student's aptitude in academic. It is much like professional certifications, you have to pass the exams before you can be certified with MCSE, CCNP and CCIE. To most brick and mortar schools, the proctored exams are not only necessary and it is imperative for them to judge a student for what they have learned. Let me use an analogy, if Michael Jordan does every thing the same in the game of basketball, but he could not put the ball in the basket, how good, and how much MJ is worth to the game? perhaps not much. The scoring part is important to justify his game, and so do the proctored exams in justify a graduate student's college degree.

 

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Reason being is that I have experienced both types of programs and by large and far those based upon research have been much more academically rigorous than the those based upon testing.  

For example at Ashworth University (then Ashworth College) I took multiple proctored exams none of which were even remotely easy and it was tough.  I also have done so at Tarrant County College and again with the Comptia A+ and Network+ certifications along with my Microsoft certs.  I've become pretty adept at taking tests due to these experiences. 

Once enrolling at Southwestern College however there was an entire paradigm shift in my thinking on education primarily due to Southwestern College's academic approach to learning by research.  Southwestern also utilizes what some would call an "honors" approach being that in order to graduate one would be forced to complete what amounts to an undergraduate thesis based 100% upon research.  Although I did take some quizzes and even an exam, none were proctored though all were open book and timed.  Southwestern was more than a bit more rigorous by my standards.

Lastly at Ashford I have yet to take a single proctored exam.  Everything is research based and everything to this point has been more than a little difficult.  In fact the "toughness" of some of the courses had almost convinced me that I had made a mistake and I was sorely tempted to simply drop out.  It has been one of the more difficult things if not the most difficult thing I have ever done.  Though I have taken some quizzes and even a test or 2, none have been proctored and all of the courses were heavily weighted on your final research project for each course.  Between 25 to 35% of your final grade would be based singly upon your final research document. 


An ability to conduct research and prove to be to communicate clearly in writing of your thesis is of much greater value academically and in the real world than simple testing could ever hope to be.  Though testing has its place it is a far cry from being the standard on being "the only measuring stick" at the at the university level.

To use your basketball analogy, testing is a lot like a free throw but conducting research and writing is the rest of the game.
 

I could see your points too. The important thing is common acceptance among educational institutions and large employers. With a good free through skills, O'Neill would be a legend in NBA:).

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

Neither the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools www.sacs.org nor American Intercontinental University www.aiuniv.edu says anything on their respective websites as to why AIU was on probation.

May be AIU is not on probation now, but they were. Check out this link below and I beleif the information is legit: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/203/RipOff0203329.htm  

Rip-Off Report is not exactly what you would call an unbiased, objective source.

 

Well crap...so much for using them as original source material on my doctoral dissertation.   

Cajun:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

tedmeister:

kcdpas:

I agree with Cajun 100%. Last time when I checked, AIU's RA is on probation.

I am 100% certain that AIU is no longer on probation with the Southern Association. I believe the date that probation was lifted was December 2007.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any information about why they were on probation? A friend of mine is interested in AIU's program as well.

Neither the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools www.sacs.org nor American Intercontinental University www.aiuniv.edu says anything on their respective websites as to why AIU was on probation.

May be AIU is not on probation now, but they were. Check out this link below and I beleif the information is legit: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/203/RipOff0203329.htm  

Rip-Off Report is not exactly what you would call an unbiased, objective source.

 

Well crap...so much for using them as original source material on my doctoral dissertation.   

Well, you might still be able to use Rip-Off Report in your dissertation ... if you want to study the psychological profile of individuals who wash out of their distance learning programs.

---

Theodore L. Heiks, BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984; MBA, Entrepfreneurship, City University Washington, 1992; MBA, Marketing, City University Washington, 1993