frogman:

Steve,  What an excellent way to sum up the fact that we do tend to get caught up in the degree instead of focusing what we want to get out of the program, sometimes you get so wrapped up in the journy you forget the destination.

frogman,

In contrary, I think the learning part is the journey of education and the degree is the destination. That is how a employer judge a job applicant's ability to adapt and to perform the job required. The degree will give a over all predictive measure about a person. Even though the degree can not guarantee success, but it is likely the case and I meant the probability is high.

kcdpas:

In contrary, I think the learning part is the journey of education and the degree is the destination. That is how a employer judge a job applicant's ability to adapt and to perform the job required. The degree will give a over all predictive measure about a person. Even though the degree can not guarantee success, but it is likely the case and I meant the probability is high.

Right, but that goes with what I'm saying -- in the case you're describing, the job is the goal, and the degree merely the way to get it.

-=Steve=-

SteveFoerster:

kcdpas:

In contrary, I think the learning part is the journey of education and the degree is the destination. That is how a employer judge a job applicant's ability to adapt and to perform the job required. The degree will give a over all predictive measure about a person. Even though the degree can not guarantee success, but it is likely the case and I meant the probability is high.

Right, but that goes with what I'm saying -- in the case you're describing, the job is the goal, and the degree merely the way to get it.

-=Steve=-

Agreed. If a person smart enough and be able to get the dream job, the degree marely helped to get him/her in the door.

Steve: "Nope.  The status of the school on the day of graduation is the key.  That's bad in your scenario, but good for students whose schools later lose their accreditation." 

Lester: Not quite, at least in practice.

a) Most RA schools will treat degrees earned while a school is a candidate for RA as the same as accredited as long as the school has gone on to accreditation or remains a candidate.

b) In many employment and academic situations, degrees earned at a school prior to its accreditation are treated as degrees from accredited schools, despite the fact Steve raises (on which he is quite correct, technically).  In many cases, no one will compare the person's graduation date with the school's accreditation date.  If they check at all--and soooo many employers do not--they'll check a reference guide and find the school listed.  That will be it.

kcdpas:

frogman:

Steve,  What an excellent way to sum up the fact that we do tend to get caught up in the degree instead of focusing what we want to get out of the program, sometimes you get so wrapped up in the journy you forget the destination.

frogman,

In contrary, I think the learning part is the journey of education and the degree is the destination. That is how a employer judge a job applicant's ability to adapt and to perform the job required. The degree will give a over all predictive measure about a person. Even though the degree can not guarantee success, but it is likely the case and I meant the probability is high.

People come to a university to (a) get an education and (b) get a degree.  But an education can be obtained in many places and in many ways.  A degree is a proxy--it stands for what you have learned and are able to do.  This gets communicated to anyone who sees you have a degree.  That's why proper accreditation is so important--degrees from unaccredited schools don't answer the question, because no one knows about the quality of the school and the degrees they issue.

Lester:

kcdpas:

frogman:

Steve,  What an excellent way to sum up the fact that we do tend to get caught up in the degree instead of focusing what we want to get out of the program, sometimes you get so wrapped up in the journy you forget the destination.

frogman,

In contrary, I think the learning part is the journey of education and the degree is the destination. That is how a employer judge a job applicant's ability to adapt and to perform the job required. The degree will give a over all predictive measure about a person. Even though the degree can not guarantee success, but it is likely the case and I meant the probability is high.

People come to a university to (a) get an education and (b) get a degree.  But an education can be obtained in many places and in many ways.  A degree is a proxy--it stands for what you have learned and are able to do.  This gets communicated to anyone who sees you have a degree.  That's why proper accreditation is so important--degrees from unaccredited schools don't answer the question, because no one knows about the quality of the school and the degrees they issue.

Precisely. An accreditation validates the degree, but without the degree your education obtained from life experiences (one of the many places you could gain knowledge) does not worth much simply it can not be validated. Every one admires a degree from an Ivy League schools because they are more creditable.

kcdpas:

Lester:

People come to a university to (a) get an education and (b) get a degree.  But an education can be obtained in many places and in many ways.  A degree is a proxy--it stands for what you have learned and are able to do.  This gets communicated to anyone who sees you have a degree.  That's why proper accreditation is so important--degrees from unaccredited schools don't answer the question, because no one knows about the quality of the school and the degrees they issue.

Precisely. An accreditation validates the degree, but without the degree your education obtained from life experiences (one of the many places you could gain knowledge) does not worth much simply it can not be validated. Every one admires a degree from an Ivy League schools because they are more creditable.

I realize that those entering the job market have to consider external validation of their credentials and education.  But that doesn't mean that accreditation is the only way for an institution to earn a positive reputation or that people with unusual goals might not find an unaccredited program to be a good fit. It also doesn't mean that those who have the right skills but no degree are necessarily at a disadvantage.  I have a strong IT background, and in that field what one knows is much more important than whether one has a particular degree or none at all -- and one's relevant experiences can be validated by simple testing.

-=Steve=-

Cajun:

Exactly, although accreditation is designed to ensure quality, being unaccredited does not necessarily mean substandard.  For example, in Louisiana the Louisiana Baptist University (a seminary) seems to be well regarded, yet last I checked they were unaccredited. 

It may be very well be true. However, I would argue, by the common wisdom, it would be better off getting the diploma issued by an accredited schools. You will save yourself a tons of trouble and try to convince people your degree is legit. All colleges/universities clearly state that transferable credit must issued from a properly accredited institution. A straight line alway has the shortest distance between point a to point b,  why taking the chances with the good unaccredited schools unless the degree is for your own satisfaction with your diploma collection:).

 I've noticed a trend in "technical" jobs that certification by an industry group carries more weight than anything else.  Even with my degrees, most jobs I qualify for require specialty certifications, many of which could be obtained without a degree and with about a many years of servitude. 

 A friend recently tried for a job he was well qualified for both in practical experience and degree but lost out to an applicant with less time in the field because he didn't have the specific certification they were looking for.

Showing what you know, through certs or otherwise, is very important in IT, but that doesn't mean degrees are irrelevant.  Degrees can make a difference in deciding among equally qualified candidates, or in promotion, or in salary negotiations, for example.

-=Steve=-

Cajun, I work in project management though IT is probably the worst in the industry for requiring specialty certifications for everything.  Due to the general term project manager you have to show certification for your specialty to earn industry respect as well as certifications in various software packages to show you can work with different systems.