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My A.T. Still University Experience

My Wife the Law School Student... We Hope!

“The Claw chooses who will go and who will stay.” — Alien #2, Toy Story

For many years my wife Adella has talked about how she wants to go to law school.  This is an interesting situation, because we're in the U.S. for now but ultimately we plan to return permanently to Dominica, in the Caribbean.  That means she needs to do a law program that would allow her to practice law there, but it also has to allow her to practice law here at least for a while.

The problem is that because of our family schedule, distance learning is one of her requirements, and if you want to practice law in the U.S., your distance learning options are very limited.  The American Bar Association has a death grip on accreditation of law schools, and squeezes tightly to ensure that distance learning options aren't available.  And it's understandable that they do — they last thing need is for it to be convenient for people to go to law school, why, then there would be more lawyers out there, and that would mean more competition to drive down legal fees!

As with any sufficiently complex system, though, there are loopholes.  The biggest is California, which is unique among U.S. states in that it has an alternate system where programs approved by the state bar association allow one to take the bar exam in that state.  Since some of those programs are available by distance, it's possible to do a JD degree online from one of them if one is okay with only being able to practice in California, at least initially.

Unfortunately, we don't live in California so that doesn't work for her.  And then there's another wrinkle in that she doesn't have a Bachelor's degree.  In most English-speaking countries, law school is a first degree, called a Bachelor of Laws or LLB.  In the U.S., it's a similar program, but it requires a Bachelor's to apply, and the degree is a Juris Doctor, or JD.

So what about foreign schools with distance learning programs?  This is especially useful for my wife in that those programs are mostly at British schools, and since Dominica inherited its legal system from the British, it's possible to practice there with a British law degree, and many attorneys there do exactly that.

The question, then, is how much use a British law degree is in the U.S.  It turns out that the answer depends on in which state you want to practice.  We live in Virginia, and it seems that a British law degree doesn't get you very far in this state, but that if one has a British LLB one can practice in either D.C. or Maryland by going on for an extra year to get an American LLM, or Master of Laws degree.  We're just fifteen minutes from either of those jurisdictions, so that might be the best option.

So, with it reasonably settled that an LLB from a British school with a distance learning program would meet all her criteria, she then had to find one that would be a good fit.  The best known and most prestigious is the University of London External Programme, but it's a notoriously difficult program, and she's concerned it wouldn't be easy to balance with family and work responsbilities.  There's the Open University, which is well regarded, but unfortunately they don't admit students who live outside the EU.  There's Northumbria University, which requires more visits to campus (i.e., trips to England) than would be convenient for us.  But finally there's Nottingham Trent University, where annual visits would do, and where the overall cost of the program is about eighteen thousand dollars.

Then she spoke with a friend who's an attorney in Ireland and now New York who has an LLB from Nottingham Trent and recommends them highly.  So she applied to Nottingham Trent a while ago as a first choice.  After a while she called them to see whether they'd received all the materials she sent, and ended up speaking with a very nice lady who it turns out is the decision maker on her application.  Even though she was so pleasant, Adella couldn't help but later admit to me that she thought of her as The Claw since she's the one who chooses who will go to Nottingham Trent and who will stay out.

Anyway, she's supposed to hear from The Claw next week.  Here's hoping that she's selected!

Next up, The Claw decides!

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Published Saturday, June 06, 2009 7:59 PM by SteveFoerster

Comments

 

donald11 said:

So if your wife gets the law degree from the British schools you listed

and then gets the LLM (which I believe

you can do online from schools such as NYU),

would she be eligible to take the Bar exam in all 50 states?

June 6, 2009 10:42 PM
 

SteveFoerster said:

No, the "foreign LLB, American LLM" approach works for some states but not others.  I don't have a complete list, but I do know that it works for D.C. and Maryland, which are right next to us.  One of the most useful states for this approach is New York, where one can take the state bar exam and practice law just with a British LLB without even doing an LLM, at least under some circumstances.

And yes, there are a few distance learning LLM programs through American ABA-accredited law schools.  They're usually in something specific like tax law, though.  The law schools around here have campus-based LLM programs specifically in U.S. law; they're meant for people with foreign first degrees, so she may look more for something like that.  That's four years away, though, so anything could happen by then.

June 6, 2009 10:52 PM
 

donald11 said:

I see.  Do you know about the bar exam passage rates these schools

have?  The reason I ask is that since I'm getting my BS in paralegal studies

in July, an online law degree is someting that interests me a lot, but I'm

concerned that distance, non-ABA programs don't have strong Bar

passage rates.  

June 6, 2009 11:03 PM
 

SteveFoerster said:

That discussion about non-ABA schools and pass rates (usually of the so-called "baby bar", not the actual bar exam) is specific to those unaccredited schools in California that are only recognized in that state.  My wife's not looking at those, she's looking at British schools, which is a totally different situation.

June 6, 2009 11:24 PM
 

donald11 said:

Do you know what kind of job prospects someone with an online LLB has

in the U.S.? Are firms willing to hire them?  I would imagine that they would

be at a considerbale disadvantage to those with JDs from ABA-accred. law

schools.

June 7, 2009 2:11 PM
 

Cajun said:

Good luck Steve, it's a shame Law is so tough to get into via distance learning.  ABA gatekeeping at its level best.

June 8, 2009 8:49 AM
 

SteveFoerster said:

I guess it depends on how you look at the world.  The area where we live is sufficiently international that a firm grasp of British law probably wouldn't be a drawback.  But more than that, she doesn't just look at her professional life as one where the point is to have "job prospects" where can find work for other people.

June 8, 2009 10:03 PM
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About SteveFoerster

I'm an educational technologist and administrator who loves distance learning. I completed my Bachelor's in Information Systems by distance, and went on to do a Master's in Educational Technology almost entirely online.

Now it's time for doctoral study, and I've decided to stick with eLearning for many reasons, chief among them that the Doctor of Health Education program that interested me wasn't available from a local university. Also, I'm married with four school-age kids, so I definitely need the flexibility that online learning can provide. This program at A.T. Still University met my needs.

My other interests include veganism, developing world issues, open educational resources and free culture, and individual liberty.

A.T. Still University


A.T. Still University instills in students the knowledge, integrity, compassion, and experience needed to address the needs of the whole person.

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SteveFoerster

I'm an educational technologist and administrator who loves distance learning. I completed my Bachelor's in Information Systems by distance, and went on to do a Master's in Educational Technology almost entirely online.

Now it's time for doctoral study, and I've decided to stick with eLearning for many reasons, chief among them that the Doctor of Health Education program that interested me wasn't available from a local university. Also, I'm married with four school-age kids, so I definitely need the flexibility that online learning can provide. This program at A.T. Still University met my needs.

My other interests include veganism, developing world issues, open educational resources and free culture, and individual liberty.

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