My Ashford University Experience : DETC

Texas Will Now Recognize National Accrediting Agencies

Cajun — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:12:00 GMT

Texas made it official on 7-24-08; they will now recognize national accrediting agencies such as the DETC, ACICS, COE, etc. For those of you who are new to the whole issue here's the short and ugly of it. The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board passed a policy which stated that only degree holders with a degree issued by a school accredited by one of the 6 regional accrediting agencies will be permitted to use their credentials within the State of Texas. Believe it or not Texas passed a law making it a criminal offense to do otherwise (misdemeanor). Therefore degree holders from schools like Aspen University, Penn Foster College or Andrew Jackson University would be committing a crime by using their degree for gainful employment purposes within the State.

Texas then published a list of diploma mills and degree mills, which was woefully non-comprehensive and in some cases outright wrong as in the case where they listed California Coast University as a degree mill. Unfortunately for the credibility of the State, California Coast University was accredited by the DETC. As you may imagine this captured the attention of the DETC, various alumni of California Coast University and generally anyone who else who may be concerned and the formal protests and letters began to flow not only concerning the inappropriateness of labeling California Coast University as a degree mill, but also the inappropriateness of the policy against legal and appropriately recognized accreditation agencies and the schools they accredit.

To make a long story short, the board eventually agreed to reconvene and reconsider their stance on accreditation. Shortly thereafter, on July 24^th they agreed to recognize national accrediting agencies as well. As for how this new policy will play out in the various state licensing agencies there is still a question. For example, Texas will not permit anyone who earned a JD via a distance, regardless of accreditation, to sit for the Texas State Bar Exam to practice law in Texas. CPA's are required to have earned a minimum of half the required credit hours in accounting in a regionally accredited school's B&M classroom, butt in seat. Additionally the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement will only recognize higher education from one of the 6 regional accrediting bodies and even goes on to itemize them in their educational standards. So though Texas is not out of the woods yet, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/GeneralPubs/Agenda/Ag2008_07/IXI/default.htm

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The DETC rolls out a list of newly accredited schools

Cajun — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:56:00 GMT

There are five newly accredited schools for potential students to consider. Some interesting offerings are here that have not been offered before and I did a quick scan of each of these schools. See below for my quick and dirty reviews based upon price, site content and offerings.

The following institutions were accredited as of June 7, 2008:

Allied American University

Founded 2007 (2008/2011).
Associates and Bachelor's degree in Business Administration, Computer Information Systems, Criminal Justice, and General Studies.

The good:

A really slick Web site
A Bachelor of General Studies (a first for a DETC school)
Free transcript evaluation however I couldn't find how many transfer credits they would accept.
Textbooks included in cost

The bad:

$250 per credit hour for an undergrad degree is pretty steep for a newcomer and DETC accredited school. There are plenty of less expensive regionally accredited offerings.

American Center for Conflict Resolution Institute

12900 Lake Avenue, Suite 003A

Lakewood, OH 44107

http://www.accri.org/

Founded 1998 (2008/2013).
Offers certificate courses in Professional Mediation and Paralegal-Legal Assistant.

The good:

Their entire program is $900.

The bad:

Easily the award winner for the "worst school seal ever" award. It's a peace symbol with writing on it.
No degree offerings, the program credit transferability is dubious.
From where I'm sitting they have a S-L-O-W Web site.
Spell it with me, an U-G-L-Y Web site. I mean really…

Perelandra College

8697-C La Mesa Boulevard, PMB 21

La Mesa, CA 91941

Web Site: http://www.perelandracollege.com/
Founded 2002 (2008/2013).
Offers Masters of Arts in Counseling and Master of Arts in Creative Writing.

The good:

The DETC may have found a rare gem here. Like Harrison Middleton, there really isn't another DETC offering with these types of programs available. The Master of Arts in Creative Writing looks positively fascinating.

The school seems very centered on ethics and a value centric curriculum which as you all know, I am all about.
The cost is $150 per credit hour for either masters degree. This may very well be the least expensive masters degree on the planet earth. Tough, tough, tough to beat.

The bad:

At this price with these offerings and values, nothing really. If you had to get nit picky though the Web site isn't as slick as it could be.

University of Atlanta

801 Executive Park Drive, Suite 204

Mobile, AL 36606 info@uofa.edu;

http://www.uofa.edu/
Founded 1991 (2008/2013).
Offers Master of Science and Bachelor of Science in Business, Social Science, Computer Science, Education and Healthcare Administration. Master of Business Administration and Executive Master of Business Administration. Concentrations in: Administration, Finance, International Business, Marketing, Human Resource Management, Management Information Systems, Computer Science, Educational Leadership and Criminal Justice.

The good:

This looks like it is going to be a big school with a lot of offerings. They are already promising no less than three, count them, three doctoral degrees.
The "University of Atlanta" has a pretty impressive sounding name that is not likely to even be given a second glance by the great majority of HR types out there screening resumes as it just sounds like a school everyone has heard of.
Super slick Web site with the exception of some of the goofy grad photos. Bravo guys…
At $350 per undergrad course and $600 per graduate course these guys offer a price point that is almost impossible to beat making the cost vs. benefit of their degree offerings ALMOST a no brainer. I can't wait to find out more about this school.

The bad:

Things could backfire for them if they jack up the prices quickly. As of now they have the former price leader Ashworth University beat with a stick so let's hope for restraint.

The school is called the "University of Atlanta" but located in Mobile, Alabama. Hmmm…that is a little odd.

Yorktown University, Inc.

4340 East Kentucky Avenue, Suite 457

Denver, CO 80246

http://www.yorktownuniversity.com/
Founded 2000 (2008/2013).
Offers Master of Arts in Government Completion Requirements.

The good:

A somewhat unique offering in the Master of Arts in Government.
An interesting newsletter which is odd for most DETC schools.
They seem to genuinely believe what they write about on their Web site, in other words, they seem committed.

The bad:

Ugly Web site, not quite as bad as the American Center for Conflict Resolution Institute, but close.
One degree offering? I suppose it beats a couple of diploma courses but odd. I suppose they intend to do one thing and one thing well?
At $250 per credit hour this is no bargain unless you must have a Government degree. At this price point there are viable regionally accredited offerings.

Well that about sums it up. Some new kids on the block for you guys to check out. I've enjoyed looking through these Web sites and I think you'll find some interesting things on them.

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So I'm Considering a Doctorate Degree

Cajun — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:56:00 GMT

First up, I've written about them before and I'm doing it again, but the Harrison Middleton University's College of the Humanities and Sciences has the best looking all around liberal arts doctorate programs I've seen. I love the concept of performing your research based upon readings from the Great Books, many of which have shaped our way of life in the Western World. Some of these works have influenced everyone from Marx to the framers of the United States Constitution to Einstein. I love the concept, I love the idea of the program.

The cost is very reasonable at just over $16K and of course I love the idea of being "Doctor Cajun." However there is a con, the degree seems as if it would have very little practical use as a credential in the "real world" even though the education gained from this program may prove invaluable indeed. So the inner pragmatist within me keeps shouting "something else, find something else" so I continued my search.

Found at http://www.chumsci.edu/pages/degree/doctorarts-coursework.asp

My search eventually landed me on Northcentral University's Web site. This school offers a deep law enforcement discount placing the degree program squarely within my predefined "affordable" range and the idea of a PhD soothes my inner pragmatist because of its utility in teaching and academia. I've made no secret of it; if at all possible I would love to teach college management, leadership and criminal justice courses. I am passionate on the subject matter, I am interested in the topics and because of that, I am gifted in those areas.

NCU has concentrations that are in areas of interest to me such as in Criminal Justice, Homeland Security, Homeland Security: Leadership and Policy and a strange but interesting offering in Business, Corporate and Campus Security. Holy cow!!! On top of that if I choose 18 hours in electives towards Organizational Leadership that will be added to the transcript as a secondary specialization. So it would read something like Doctor of Philosophy in Business Administration with a specialization in Criminal Justice and Organizational Leadership…not bad, eh?

Another consideration is that NCU is accredited by the ACBSP and is regionally accredited by the NCACS which would turn into a weighty teaching credential.

I'll have to start really weighing my options again. In all honesty if I could have any job on the planet, right at the top of my list somewhere would be a college professor or instructor in criminal justice, management and leadership, I've just never considered that to be a practical goal but now it looks like it could actually happen one day…maybe.

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Regional Accreditation vs. National Accreditation

Cajun — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:53:00 GMT

Before I started reading and posting and reading some more on higher education, I had no idea that there were so many ongoing debates going on behind the scenes about getting a college degree. The more popular debates I have seen are:

1.) Regional Accreditation (RA) vs. National Accreditation (NA)
2.) Professional accreditation vs. no professional accreditation
3.) Non-profit schools vs. For-profit schools
4.) State schools vs. private schools
5.) Religious schools vs. non-religious
6.) Professional schools vs. academic schools
7.) Online vs. on campus

And I am quite sure that there are other arguments going on that escape my attention at the moment. Any one of the 7 criteria can be debated ad nauseam but the biggest debate I see over and over again and one that leads to high emotions is that of RA vs. NA schools. I've blogged over this before but the topic is so divisive and heated that I thought I'd write about it again.

Recently within various forums, including the elearner forum there have been posts where some argue that a degree should be regionally accredited or nothing, regardless of the circumstances. Others feel that national accreditation and regional accreditation are equal. Both are wrong.

Regional accreditation is of course the standard among colleges and universities. Notice I did not say the "gold" standard or the "highest" standard, merely "the" standard. By "the" standard I mean that the majority of universities and colleges within the United States are regionally accredited. The most recognized names in higher education are regionally accredited. Most if not all state schools are regionally accredited and almost any employer that I can think of within the United States will accept a regionally accredited degree as meeting the "accredited institution" requirement for employment positions (independent of professional accrediting agencies such as ACBSP of course). Most licensing agencies will accept regionally accredited schools though some will require additional accreditation or memberships such as the American Bar Association or ACBSP accreditation, etc.

National accredited schools are a minority among universities and colleges and generally are considered an alternative accreditation to the mainstream regional accreditation. In most instances a nationally accredited school is acceptable for employment purposes, but seldom for academic positions, ironically even among nationally accredited schools.

Where things get heated is usually when RA advocates argue that only RA degrees make sense and are generally acceptable. This of course upsets the NA degree holders, especially when a NA degree holder has experienced success using their NA degree.

The truth is most people outside of these educational forums know about or care enough to research the differences between the two. This includes the mythical all discerning human resources representative or hiring manager. I am a hiring manager and I work with no less than 9 other interviewers and hiring managers, along with about 2 or 3 different human resources persons who are the applicant screeners; they review applicants before they are forwarded to us. The general attitude of the educational portion of the resume or application packet is that of a check box. We of course perform background investigations where the education will be double checked to make sure the applicant actually earned the credential that they claimed and that the school from which it was earned fulfills a preestablished criteria for accreditation, which in our case is that the school is accredited by an agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

I have professional counterparts with other departments with whom I speak on occasion regarding finding and recruiting qualified applicants. Their criteria varies in that some adopt the accreditation requirements of the State of Texas peace officer licensing board which will only recognized regionally accredited schools. Others will recognize any degree within a specific major from a school that maintains accreditation from a U.S. Department of Education recognized accrediting agency.

Generally the screeners themselves do not really know the difference. The interviewers and hiring managers generally do not know the difference either and the background screeners often research the school using a book published by the U.S. Department of Education or the USDOE website. I happen to be the resident expert in this sort of thing within my own department and occasionally I will field a question from others, but often the argument is simply cut and dried.

My observations are as follows on the debate.

1.) A regionally accredited degree from almost anywhere would be acceptable to most employers as long as the major can be demonstrated to be of value to that employer. The one exception to the rule is when you have a screener armed with enough information to draw erroneous conclusions. For example if you have a recruiter who has heard bad things about University of Phoenix, they may discard that resume incorrectly assuming the degree is illegitimate.

2.) In most instances a nationally accredited degree will be okay. I don't have an actual percentage since I have not honestly done any formal research on the matter, but I would guess probably over ¾ of employers would not question the validity of the degree simply because they (the recruiter) will check the school out through the USDOE website, which is free and easy as you simply type the name of the school and hit enter. http://www.ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp

More often than not if the school is listed within and the degree major is in an area the recruiter is looking for, this graduate will make the cut. The only times I see NA degrees discarded is generally when the job posting or human resources policy specifies a "regionally accredited" school and more often than not will go on to list those accrediting agencies by name so as to have no doubt.

So is a regionally accredited degree better than a nationally accredited degree? Certainly in my experience the two are interchangeable in academic rigor and education, but in utility the regionally accredited degree will prove to be greater, however perhaps not necessarily for you personally.

A regionally accredited degree makes more sense for someone:

1.) Who is relatively young in age, (early 20's to mid 30's)
2.) Who is likely to change jobs a few times during their career
3.) Who may even change careers once or twice
4.) Who may want to teach one day
5.) Who would like to work their way into a more prestigious school
6.) Who would like to simply put the whole debate behind them and not have to worry about it in the future
7.) Who can get a RA degree for the same expense and effort as a NA degree
8.) Who works within a state that has educational standards to where only RA degrees are recognized by that state for licensure or employment (like Texas)

A nationally accredited degree makes more sense for someone:

1.) Who likes the teaching method of a particular NA school and otherwise would not attend college. For example the paper and pen method of correspondence learning at Andrew Jackson University vs. using a Blackboard format
2.) Who is fairly established in their career and is not likely to change jobs anytime soon if ever and the degree meets the standards of their current employer
3.) Who is earning the degree for reasons different than that of economics, such as personal pride or achievement
4.) For someone who wants a fairly lenient credit transfer from a smorgasbord of other colleges and schools. Of course that used to be Excelsior College, who while still fairly lenient, will only accept other RA school credits
5.) Is self employed or simply wants the education that comes with the degree

I hope this makes sense to those considering a degree soon and are caught up in the RA vs. NA debate.

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Attention All Distance Learners: A Call To Action

Cajun — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:04:00 GMT

Okay I know I promised a 3 part series on certificates, which I will finish sometime tonight or tomorrow, but for now something more pressing is at hand. Terry has an excellent blog post on one of the many shortcomings of my beloved State of Texas in regards to education. I strongly urge you to read his post in which he rightfully is vexed over California Coast University being listed on Texas's list of fraudulent degrees.

http://community.elearners.com/blogs/penn_foster_college_blog/archive/2007/10/25/the-state-of-texas-has-it-all-wrong.aspx

Of course as we all know here, California Coast University is accredited by the DETC which is recognized by both the CHEA and the U.S.DOE. Boy that was a lot of acronyms wasn't it?

The problem is that the list is simply outdated. They even have "a" Ashford University on the list but with a little sidebar that states that this only applies to the fake Ashford University, not the real Ashford University in IA which used to be known as the Franciscan University, as if that will not confuse some overworked, underpaid bureaucrat or human resource screener. The thing is, there hasn't been a fraudulent Ashford University in quiet some time and the people who may most be affected by this will be folks like me, who will have a legitimate, expensive and hard earned degree. As if the whole issue on accreditation isn't confusing enough, state agencies such as this one are woefully behind the times and dreadfully ignorant of the subject matter they are to be writing and enforcing policy on.

As an example, the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) is not on the Texas list of state approved accrediting agencies. This means that Texas will not recognize a degree as being legitimate from such schools as Columbia Southern University, Penn Foster College, Ashworth College, Andrew Jackson University, Southwest University, etcetera, all of which are fully legitimate, legal and accredited schools which will be listed in the United States Department of Education and the Council on Higher Education Accreditation's publications. But apparently this doesn't matter to Texas as seen in the following link...

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/PDF/1254.PDF

In fact, in Texas using a "fraudulent" or "substandard" degree is a Class B Misdemeanor. I wish I was making this stuff up.

Now I have seen in other conversations where there was a professor who was using a doctorate degree from California Coast University which was earned prior to the school being accredited by the DETC. Some people are tying their hopes to the outcome of her case. She is claiming that her doctorate is from an accredited school recognized by the DETC which is approved by the CHEA and DOE. She is both right an wrong. The school is accredited, however since she earned the degree when it was not accredited, her degree is not. There is no grandfather clause. See... http://www.southeasttexaslive.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18953787&BRD=2287&PAG=461&dept_id=512588&rfi=6

This is unfortunate in that I believe that she will lose her case based upon this one fact and as such we cannot count on Texas to change or be ordered to change their policy based upon this case.

As such I believe this is a perfect opportunity to get the voice of the distance learning community heard regardless of which state you may live in. That's you and me folks. If you're reading this post, you probably have a dog in this fight as Texas is not alone in these types of draconian and ignorant restrictions. I then urge each of you to set a precedent, write, email and call Texas and let them know how you feel about their policies on education and accreditation. I ask that if you do decide to write that you be professional, respectful and informed. Be representative of the distance learning community; put your best foot forward.

You may contact them at http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/Comments/

Remember, this is how democracy works.

Below is the letter I have emailed and I will also snail mail.

Aldureaux Le'Paumer

123 Mystreet
Big D, TX 75200

mailto:alduropalmer@gmail.com

Raymund A. Paredes, Ph.D

Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board
P.O. Box 12788
Austin, TX 78711-2788

Dear Dr. Paredes,

Re: Ashford University, California Coast University and the DETC

I am writing in regards to your listed diploma mills found at http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/PrivateInstitutions/NoTX.cfm. You have two schools on your list which are a cause of concern to me. The first is Ashford University. I realize that for a brief time a few years ago there were fake degrees issued by a company under the name Ashford University but I believe that Texas will have far, far more legitimate graduates and students than those claiming a fraudulent degree from an old diploma mill no longer in operation. I am currently a graduate student at the real Ashford University in Clinton, IA which is regionally accredited by the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA). Although you do have a disclaimer regarding the real Ashford University just to the right of the listing, I feel that even having the school listed will simply cause confusion and hurt graduates and students of the real Ashford University. There have been fake degrees sold for Stanford University, Harvard University and even Columbia University, but none of them are listed on your website like Ashford University. I feel that this unfairly singles out Ashford University and unnecessarily so.p>

Secondly I am concerned by the fact that you have California Coast University listed as a diploma mill. California Coast University gained accreditation by the Distance Education and Training Council in 2005. The Distance Education and Training Council are recognized as a legitimate accrediting agency by both the United States Department of Education and the Council (USDOE) on Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA).

I am requesting that both Ashford University and California Coast University be removed from the above linked list on your website.

Additionally I have noticed that the State of Texas does not recognize the DETC as a legitimate and legal accrediting agency despite the DETC being recognized by the CHEA and the USDOE. I was wondering if you could explain why this is so on your website or correct the error if this is indeed an oversight.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Aldureaux Le'Paumer

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